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Post by eddie on Aug 28, 2013 7:31:32 GMT
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swan
Junior Member
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Post by swan on Aug 28, 2013 18:46:13 GMT
Bit harsh that isn't it?
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Post by eddie on Aug 28, 2013 20:34:15 GMT
I thought that, too. Betancourt is not a dirty player - I think it was just misjudged (the tackle). What really annoyed me was the reaction of the Casuals players in doing their utmost to get him sent off, a couple of them ex teammates of Steve's! I think that the tackle was a red card offence but why do opposition players have to react like that?
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pmj
Junior Member
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Post by pmj on Aug 29, 2013 8:33:36 GMT
Steve and Mark are both very good players who have the club to heart and want to do well for the club. However both challenges are unacceptable for the numerous reasons
1. Two footed (dangerous )
2. Both in an area of play where not needed.
3. In the context of both games early on and at end of a very good half's performance, crazy. Especially Steve B as his first half performance was excellent.
Both challenges gave the referee no option but to show the red card. Steve's comments are spot on and are in context of what has been said to both players and in accordance with the clubs code of conduct which all players and managers sign up to . We are a fantastic club, with fantastic support, some good players and a good manager who cares wants to do well And get as many points as possible. there is ambition at the club and those 2 challenges have cost us valuable points. I wonder where we might be sitting in the league now! It has been a fantastic start and some very good football being played by the swans, gates are up and lots going going on.
Thank you all for your support.
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swan
Junior Member
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Post by swan on Aug 29, 2013 10:24:01 GMT
I agree they were poor challenges but for a manager to put all the blame on one player I don't agree with, it's a managers job to find a solution to problems like that which do occur in football. It's almost as if to say that a player getting sent off immediately means a loss, it does make the game harder for a team obviously having 10 men but there are many teams which have been able to get a draw or even a win out of situations like that, I still feel its a very harsh thing to say about a player especially when the goals came from poor defending in my opinion
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pmj
Junior Member
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Post by pmj on Aug 29, 2013 12:17:18 GMT
I think it is fair to say that having 9 outfield players for
1. 85mins
2. 45mins
Will have a detrimental affect on the end score line. Especially on such a large pitch as Stompond Lane.
It takes all outfield players to defend, not individuals. With one less makes it extremely harder to do. As a coach when in position of the ball you strive to have the movement off it to make space to look as though you have that extra player to pass to. When you have a player sent off, all you do is give the opposition that edge. You could not see a bigger grin on Mark Ham's face when Steve was sent off. Again I must stress both tackles were in positions where they were not needed to be made. I can see from Marks McCloud play on Sat he has learnt from his mistake and I am sure Steve will also. Two good players with heart and desire to win, just both need to realise that they don't have to panic this season they are in a good team when all 11 players are on the pitch!
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Post by eddie on Aug 29, 2013 12:19:24 GMT
Steve Betancourt has been at the club a long time and is an example of exactly the ethos that the club keeps telling us about (bringing players through from youth to reserve to first team). He is still quite young (19ish) and has made a mistake. To threaten to throw him out of the club if he makes another mistake is, in my opinion (and Swan's) "a bit harsh".
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swan
Junior Member
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Post by swan on Aug 29, 2013 13:24:50 GMT
I completely agree with Eddie it would be more understandable if he had thrown a punch or got sent off for that sort of behaviour then I would agree with the threat not for a badly timed challenge
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Post by cambridgeswan on Aug 29, 2013 15:23:47 GMT
Not so much the hairdryer treatment as, perhaps, the 'Baker's oven'. Betancourt's age might be a factor but, if the manager felt he'd put down a marker with his warning to McLeod, you have to wonder why he made that challenge three matches later. Time will tell if it's the right approach that brings discipline to the squad and respect to the manager. What we wouldn't want is players treading on eggshells for fear of making a mistake.
I agree with Paul M-J that the quality of our squad should allow us to play with confidence and good sense. Do we know when Onieva will be available again?
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pmj
Junior Member
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Post by pmj on Aug 29, 2013 15:58:47 GMT
I've managed, coached and known Steve for 4 years bringing him through the development set up. I have never seen him jump 2 footed into a challenge like saturdays before. I also disagree you swan as it was well timed!
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swan
Junior Member
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Post by swan on Aug 29, 2013 16:14:08 GMT
There we go then you've know Steve and coached him for 4 years and have never seen him do that before, so then do you feel it's fair he gets threatened like that for a mistake you've only seen him do once for the club? Not only that put all the blame on him? Football is a team game and one player can't be blamed for the whole outcome of a match
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Post by pompeyswan on Aug 29, 2013 18:45:03 GMT
Trouble is its easy to say that the managers comments harsh but what would we of said if one of us was manager? I don't completely put all of the blame on them but they have to hold their hands up and admit that they were completely stupid for getting sent off in the first place. You can't go in two footed,full stop. Too many players on the receiving end of two footed tackles have ended up with career threatening injuries,Aaron Ramsey for arsenal is an example.
We let ourselves down with the two defeats while in strong positions in a match. But can we afford to keep having players sent off? I think the managers words where words of warning but never likely to happen.
Apart from that I'm very pleased with they way we are playing at the moment but I'm going to wait till February/march time to give my full verdict,that's when you know what you can aim for.
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Post by sussexswan on Sept 2, 2013 9:22:30 GMT
Have to agree with Swan we can't use going down to 10 men as an excuse for losing. Stompond Lane may be a big pitch but the play is rarely spread out to stretch the players fitness or if it is they need to work on that. I think the problem here is a need to improve on defensive qualities and playing together. There is only one game so far where we have not conceded a goal and for most of those games we have had eleven players on the pitch.
If you go down to ten men a good team should be able to restructure to defend and if a chance come about take the opportunity of a breakaway goal.
As for disciplining the player I think it is correct to stamp out dangerous tackles as this can obviously be career breaking but at the same time we do need players fired up and and when that is the case sometimes the adrenaline takes things too far. However I don't know of any top club that would stop a player playing for the club when that player is an asset to club. In fact they go out of there way to protect that player, publicly at least, so that player feels he has the support of the manager and club.
We are all fully behind the players and manager and know this is a building stage and during that stage the players and manager will learn. So lets not cut off our nose to spite our face.
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